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Inviting all women, in particular my Black sisters, to take up space and just be. An invitation to talk about what we think about, but rarely speak about. Conversations about spirituality, relationships, the “ism’s,” sex, mental wellbeing, secrets and feelings that we stuffed. We will celebrate! You will laugh, cry, be pissed, disagree, and begin to count yourself in where you’ve been counted out. Lisa Lackey, therapist, consultant and chief conversation starter and her guests will challenge you to keep the conversation going.

Think of Insideout Conversations as brunch with your main girls right in the middle of the week.

Jun 1, 2022

This week, let's revisit a conversation I had back in 2021 with Mary-Frances Winters about Black fatigue. Particularly for Black women.

This conversation is just as relevant now in 2022, as it was last year and Mary-Frances delivers a message of self-care and systemic change that I want you to take to heart.

Even if you heard it when our conversation was first released, I invite you to listen again with fresh ears.

When I ran across the book, Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit, by Mary-Frances Winters, I had already gone through various renditions of COVID, the racism that has always been there...

I was really, really, really tired, not so much in a sleepy way, but my soul was tired.

This book helped me to understand more about what I'm looking at in my own life and in the work that I do with women.

Our guest, Mary-Frances Winters is the CEO of The Winters Group, a global organization with a focus on diversity and inclusion consulting. Mary-Frances is truly working in her passion and her calling.

About Mary-Frances:

Ms. Winters is President and CEO of The Winters Group, Inc., a 36-year-old diversity and inclusion consulting firm, and the author of six books, including her best seller, We Can’t Talk about That at Work!: How to Talk about Race, Religion, Politics, and Other Polarizing Topics; and her two latest books, Inclusive Conversations: Fostering Equity, Empathy and Belonging across Differences and Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit.

If this conversation has brought you to an insight, a story, a sense of relief, please email me at and let me know.

Take care,


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