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Deep conversations about life, relationships, and recovery. In this personal storytelling podcast, licensed professional clinician, transformational speaker, and conversation starter, Lisa Lackey, shows you how to take the front seat in your life, to step out where you’ve been hesitant, and to move forward in being all that you and others have told you that you can’t be.

All you have to do is be willing to show up in your own life the best you can, and come on in to join the conversation.

Learn more about Lisa and her clinical practice at Insideout Living.

Apr 21, 2021

Black fatigue.

Particularly for Black women.

When I ran across the book, Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit, by Mary-Frances Winters, I had already gone through various renditions of COVID, the racism that has always been there...

I was really, really, really tired, not so much in a sleepy way, but my soul was tired.

This book helped me to understand more about what I'm looking at in my own life and in the work that I do with women.

Our guest, Mary-Frances Winters is the CEO of The Winters Group, a global organization with a focus on diversity and inclusion consulting. Mary is truly working in her passion and her calling.

About Mary-Frances:

Ms. Winters is President and CEO of The Winters Group, Inc., a 36-year-old diversity and inclusion consulting firm, and the author of six books, including her best seller, We Can’t Talk about That at Work!: How to Talk about Race, Religion, Politics, and Other Polarizing Topics; and her two latest books, Inclusive Conversations: Fostering Equity, Empathy and Belonging across Differences and Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit.


You're Invited...

Circles of Strength Online Retreat

May 15, June 12, 2021


If this conversation has brought you to an insight, a story, a sense of relief, please email me at and let me know.

Take care,



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Learn more about Lisa and her clinical practice, Insideout Living: